"Is This the Church You Know?"

What do you think of when you think of church government? Well if you are looking from a top down mentality then this is what you get...

I recently found this new website that has just launched intending to stimulate, question, and to provoke – hopefully in love – the Church. The name of the website is thechurchyouknow.com and they have some pretty unique videos. Either you will like'em or you'll hate'em, check them out...

"Third Day, are they really all that good?"

Again, I was reading the recent Relevant Magazine and I was a little perturbed by an advertisement of the band Third Day. I remember seeing them live in 1997 at Medford, Or. in a little church with about 100 kids or so. They were touring with little bands named Switchfoot and All Star United. At least they were little at the time.

It seemed back then that it was about a journey, a journey playing music and glorifying God. I loved it and so do the other guys with me at the time, it was real and so raw, the sound even sucked. Back then it would have cost $1000 or so to have them play at your church. Now to get Third Day you have to put up at least $50,000 and have a capacity of about 5000 or more. The same goes for the other big names out there right now.

Anyways, I saw the advertisement and at the bottom it says, “Chevrolet. The Official Vehicle Of Third Day.” I just have to say, c’mon. It’s old news because Chevy has been backing Third Day for a while now but it was the first I heard of it. I guess it’s a good thing if you like to mix culture with Christian music and promote Chevy as a backer of Christianity. I just think it’s a little overboard, seriously, just look at this website, www.thirddaychevrolet.com, too bad only I have the VIP password.

Third Day, you guys have gotten way to Dove Awarded out for me...

"Why I Don't go to Church Anymore"

I wanted to repost this article that was published on theemerge.com. While theemerge.com was online this article had more hits than any other article posted. I believe the reason why is because the people that found identity in theemerge.com were those that were struggling with the modern church as we know it today and it's relation between believers and our culture.

I do still attend a community of faith and I do not claim to agree with the article entirely but there are amazing points that are made and I think it's the best article I have found on the subject. As a believer that has been mostly outside of the church for the past year I am amazed at how God has brought other believers into my life. At the end of the article the question is asked, "Where can I find that kind of fellowship?", and with how it's explained is how it has happened in my journey. How pleased I am that Christ has been faithful to bring like-minded believers into my life and I must express they are incredibly like-minded.





Dear Fellow-believer,

I do appreciate your concern for me and your willingness to raise issues that have caused you concern. I know the way I relate to the church is a bit unconventional and some even call it dangerous. Believe me, I understand that concern because I used to think that way myself and even taught others to as well.

If you are happy with the status quo of organized religion today, you may not like what you read here. My purpose is not to convince you to see this incredible church the same way I do, but to answer your questions as openly and honestly as I can. Even if we don't end up agreeing, hopefully you will understand that our differences need not estrange us as members of Christ's body.

Where do you go to church?

I have never liked this question, even when I was able to answer it with a specific organization. I know what it means culturally, but it is based on a false premise--that church is something you can go to as in a specific event, location or organized group. I think Jesus looks at the church quite differently. He didn't talk about it as a place to go to, but a way of living in relationship to him and to other followers of his.

Asking me where I go to church is like asking me where I go to Jacobsen. How do I answer that? I am a Jacobsen and where I go a Jacobsen is. 'Church' is that kind of word. It doesn't identify a location or an institution. It describes a people and how they relate to each other. If we lose sight of that, our understanding of the church will be distorted and we'll miss out on much of its joy.

Are you just trying to avoid the question?

I know it may only sound like quibbling over words, but words are important. When we only ascribe the term 'church' to weekend gatherings or institutions that have organized themselves as 'churches' we miss out on what it means to live as Christ's body. It will give us a false sense of security to think that by attending a meeting once a week we are participating in God's church. Conversely I hear people talk about 'leaving the church' when they stop attending a specific congregation.

But if the church is something we are, not someplace we go, how can we leave it unless we abandon Christ himself? And if I think only of a specific congregation as my part of the church, haven't I separated myself from a host of other brothers and sisters that do not attend the same one I do?

The idea that those who gather on Sunday mornings to watch a praise concert and listen to a teaching are part of the church and those who do not, are not, would be foreign to Jesus. The issue is not where we are at a given time during the weekend, but how we are living in him and with other believers all week long.

But don't we need regular fellowship?

I wouldn't say we need it. If we were in a place where we couldn't find other believers, Jesus certainly would be able to take care of us. Thus, I'd phrase that a bit differently: Will people who are growing to know the Living God also desire real and meaningful connections with other believers? Absolutely! The call to the kingdom is not a call to isolation. Every person I've ever met who is thriving in the life of Jesus has a desire to share authentic fellowship with other believers. They realize that whatever they know of God's life is just in part, and only the fullest revelation of him is in the church.

But sometimes that kind of fellowship is not easy to find. Periodically on this journey we may go through times when we can't seem to find any other believers who share our hunger. That's especially true for those who find that conforming to the expectations of the religious institutions around them diminishes their relationship with Jesus. They may find themselves excluded by believers with whom they've shared close friendship. But no one going through that looks on that time as a treat. It is incredibly painful and they will look for other hungry believers to share the journey with.

My favorite expression of body life is where a local group of people chooses to walk together for a bit of the journey by cultivating close friendships and learning how to listen to God together.

Shouldn't we be committed to a local fellowship?

That has been said so often today, that most of us assume it is in the Bible somewhere. I haven't found it yet. Many of us have been led to believe that we can't possibly survive without the 'covering of the body' and will either fall into error or backslide into sin. But doesn't that happen inside our local congregations as well?

I know many people who live outside those structures and find not only an ever-deepening relationship with God, but also connections with other believers that run far deeper than they found in the institution. I haven't lost any of my passion for Jesus or my affection for his church. If anything those have grown by leaps and bounds in recent years.

Scripture does encourage us to be devoted to one another not committed to an institution. Jesus indicated that whenever two or three people get together focused on him, they would experience the vitality of church life.

Is it helpful to regularly participate in a local expression of that reality? Of course. But we make a huge mistake when we assume that fellowship takes place just because we attend the same event together, even regularly, or because we belong to the same organization. Fellowship happens where people share the journey of knowing Jesus together. It consists of open, honest sharing, genuine concern about each other's spiritual well being and encouragement for people to follow Jesus however he leads them.

But don't our institutions keep us from error?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here, but every major heresy that has been inflicted on God's people for the last 2,000 years has come from organized groups with 'leaders' who thought they knew God's mind better than anyone around them. Conversely, virtually every move of God among people hungering for him was rejected by the 'church' of that day and were excluded, excommunicated or executed for following God.

If that is where you hope to find security, I'm afraid it is sorely misplaced. Jesus didn't tell us that 'going to church' would keep us safe, but that trusting him would. He gave us an anointing of the Spirit so that we would know the difference between truth and error. That anointing is cultivated as we learn his ways in his Word and grow closer to his heart. It will help you recognize when expressions of church you share life with becomes destructive to his work in you.

So are traditional congregations wrong?

Absolutely not! I have found many of them with people who love God and are seeking to grow in his ways. I visit a couple of dozen different congregations a year that I find are far more centered on relationship than religion. Jesus is at the center of their life together, and those who act as leaders are true servants and not playing politics of leadership, so that all are encouraged to minister to one another.

I pray that even more of them are renewed in a passion for Jesus, a genuine concern for each other and a willingness to serve the world with God's love. But I think we'd have to admit that these are rare in our communities and many only last for a short span before they unwittingly look to institutional answers for the needs of the body instead of remaining dependent on Jesus. When that happens do not feel condemned if God leads you not to go along with them.

So should I stop going to church, too?

I'm afraid that question also misses the point. You see I don't believe you're going to church any more than I am. We're just part of it. Be your part, however Jesus calls you to and wherever he places you. Not all of us grow in the same environment.

If you gather with a group of believers at a specific time and place and that participation helps you grow closer to Jesus and allows you to follow his work in you, by all means don't think you have to leave. Keep in mind, however, that of itself is not the church. It is just one of many expressions of it in the place where you live.

Don't be tricked into thinking that just because you attend its meetings you are experiencing real body life. That only comes as God connects you with a handful of brothers and sisters with whom you can build close friendships and share the real ups and downs of this journey.

That can happen among traditional congregations, as it can also happen beyond them. In the last seven years I've meet hundreds if not thousands of people who have grown disillusioned with traditional congregations and are thriving spiritually as they share God's life with others, mostly in their homes.

Then meeting in homes is the answer?

Of course not. But let's be clear: as fun as it is to enjoy large group worship and even be instructed by gifted teachers, the real joy of body life can't be shared in huge groups. The church for its first 300 years found the home the perfect place to gather. They are much more suited to the dynamics of family which is how Jesus described his body.

But meeting in homes is no cure-all. I've been to some very sick home meetings and met in facilities with groups who shared an authentic body life together. But the time I spend in regular body life I want to spend face to face with a group of people. I know it isn't popular today where people find it is far easier to sit through a finely-tuned (or not so finely-tuned) service and go home without ever having to open up our life or care about another person's journey.

But ultimately what matters most to me is not where or how they meet, but whether or not people are focused on Jesus and really helping each other on the journey to becoming like him. Meetings are less the issue here than the quality of relationships. I am always looking for people like that wherever I am and always rejoice when I find it. In our new home in Oxnard, we've found a few folks and are hopeful to find even more.

Aren't you just reacting out of hurt?

I suppose that is possible and time will tell, I guess, but I honestly don't believe so. Anyone who is engaged in real body life will get hurt at times. But there are two kinds of hurt. There's the kind of pain that points to a problem that can be fixed with the right care—such as a badly sprained ankle. Then there's the kind of pain that can only be fixed by pulling away—as when you put your hand on a hot stove.

Perhaps all of us have experienced some measure of pain as we have tried to fit God's life into institutions. For a long time most of us hung in there hoping if we tweaked a few things it would get better. Though we could be successful in limited ways during moments of renewal, we also discovered that eventually the conformity an institution demands and the freedom people need to grow in Christ are at odds with one another. It has happened with virtually every group formed throughout the history of Christianity.

Are you looking for the perfect church?

No, and I don't anticipate finding one this side of eternity. Perfection is not my goal, but finding people with God's priorities. It's one thing for people to struggle toward an ideal they share together. It's another to realize that our ideals have little in common.

I make no secret of the fact that I am deeply troubled by the state of organized Christianity. Most of what we call 'church' today are nothing more than well-planned performances with little actual connection between believers. Believers are encouraged toward a growing dependency on the system or its leadership rather than on Jesus himself. We spend more energy conforming behavior to what the institution needs rather than helping people be transformed at the foot of the cross!

I'm tired of trying to fellowship with people who only view church as a two-hour a week dumping ground for guilt while they live the rest of the week with the same priorities as the world. I'm tired of those who depend on their own works of righteousness but who have no compassion for the people of the world. I'm tired of insecure people using the Body of Christ as an extension of their own ego and will manipulate it to satisfy their own needs. I'm tired of sermons more filled with the bondage of religion than the freedom of God's love and where relationships take a back seat to the demands of an efficient institution.

But don't our children need church activities?

I'd suggest that what they need most is to be integrated into God's life through relational fellowship with other believers. 92% of children who grow up in Sunday schools with all the puppets and high-powered entertainment, leave 'church' when they leave their parents' home? Instead of filling our children with ethics and rules we need to demonstrate how to live in God's life together.

Even sociologists tell us that the #1 factor in determining whether a child will thrive in society is if they have deep, personal friendships with nonrelative adults. No Sunday school can fill that role. I know of one community in Australia who after 20 years of sharing God's life together as families could say that they had not lost one child to the faith as they grew into adulthood. I know I cut across the grain here, but it is far more important that our children experience real fellowship among believers rather than the bells and whistles of a slick children's program.

What dynamics of body life do you look for?

I'm always looking for a people who are seeking to follow the Living Christ. He is at the center of their lives, their affections and their conversation. They look to be authentic and free others to hurt when they hurt, to question what they question and to follow his voice without others accusing them of being divisive or rebellious. I look for people who are not wasting their money on extravagant buildings or flashy programs; where people sitting next to each other are not strangers; and where they all participate as a priesthood to God instead of watch passively from a safe distance.

Aren't you giving people an excuse to sit home and do nothing?

I hope not, though I know it is a danger. I realize some people who leave traditional congregations end up abusing that freedom to satisfy their own desires and thus miss out on church life altogether. Neither am I a fan of 'church hoppers', who whip around to one place after another looking for the latest fad or the best opportunity to fulfill their own selfish desires.

But most of the people I meet and talk with are not outside the system because they have lost their passion for Jesus or his people, but only because the traditional congregations near them couldn't satisfy their hunger for relationship. They are seeking authentic expressions of body life and pay an incredible cost to seek it out. Believe me, we would all find it easier just to go with the flow, but once you've tasted of living fellowship between passionate believers, it is impossible to settle for anything less.

Isn't this view of church divisive?

Not of itself. People make it divisive when they demand that people conform to their revelation of truth. Most of us on the journey are accused of being divisive because freedom can be threatening to those who find their security in a religious system. But must of us aren't trying to recruit others to leave their congregations. We see the body of Christ big enough to encompass God's people however he calls them to gather.

One of the things often said about traditional church is that Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in American culture. We only meet with people who look like we do and like things the way we do. I've found now that I have far more opportunity to get with people from a broader cross-section of his body. I don't demand others do it my way and I hope in time that those who see it differently will stop demanding we conform to theirs.

Where can I find that kind of fellowship?

There's no easy answer here. It might be right in front of you among the fellowship you're already in. It might be down the street in your neighborhood or across a cubicle at work. You can also get involved in compassionate outreaches to the needy and broken in your locality as a way to live out his life in you and meet others with a similar hunger.

Don't expect this kind of fellowship to fall easily into an organization. It is organic, and Jesus can lead you to it right where you are. Look for him to put a dozen or so folks around your life with whom you can share the journey. They may not even all go to the same congregation you do. They might be neighbors or coworkers who are following after God. Wouldn't that kind of interconnection among God's people yield some incredible fruit?

Don't expect it to be easy or run smoothly. It will take some specific choices on our part to be obedient to Jesus. It may take some training to shake off old habits and be free to let him build his community around you, but it is all worth it. I know it bothers some people that I don't take my regular place in a pew on Sunday morning, but I can tell you absolutely that my worst days outside organized religion are still better than my best days inside it. To me the difference is like listening to someone talk about golf or actually taking a set of clubs out to a course and playing golf. Being his church is like that. In our day we don't need more talk about the church, but people who are simply ready to live in its reality.

People all over the world are freshly discovering how to do that again. You can be one of them as you let him place you in his body as he desires.




...As a writer and teacher Wayne Jacobsen hosts Lifestream.org and travels the world helping believers sort out what it means to live freely in the life of Christ. He was a pastor for 20 years and a Contributing Editor to Leadership Journal and has authored 6 books and numerous articles on spiritual formation, relational community and engagement of culture As President of BridgeBuilders he is also a nationally-recognized specialist and mediator in resolving cultural and religious conflicts. He resides in Oxnard, California with his wife Sara and enjoys his new granddaughter who lives not far away. His blog can be found at here ...used by permission...

"Revolution NYC"

So how true is it to you the statements made here on this picture? I just got the latest Relevant Magazine and in it is a featured article on the founder of a church called Revolution NYC. His name is Jay Bakker and he is the son of well known old school TV Evangelist Jim Bakker who lost everything because of tax evasion and other scandals’ in the 80’s. Jay is one of what Relevant calls, “9 people out to change the world.”

I have been listening and following the ministry of Jay for the last six months or so. I do appreciate his teaching style and his heart for the drifting culture. I think with what Jay has gone through as a kid growing up has defined him for who he is today.

Just last week Jay Bakker launched the newly founded Revolution NYC after building what is called Revolution Atlanta. I am stoked to see guys like this make headlines in the world today. If only the majority of Christianity would find identity is a statement like this, I believe then we would make a difference in our culture today.

Until we realize that we suck and we misrepresent Jesus we’ll never be able to reach this generation.


You can listen to Jay Bakker's opening message to Revolution NYC here or check out their webpage here.

"Controversy Killed the Cat"

Why do we like controversy so much more than conformity? Why do we tend to thrive by an attack rather than a blessing?

I find that when I blog about something that pisses people off they respond and read in a fashion that is convincing. People tend to think when you stir up controversy within their minds. They react out of feelings that aren’t usually of good quality but nonetheless they are real.

But that’s what I like. I like to be in the middle of the fight. As punches are thrown I am doing all I can to dodge them, knowing the entire time it’s my fault they are there in the first place. For now on I am going totally controversial. I have no reputation to uphold, an am not a leader of a church, and I am not involved with any special ministry.

I am going to try and make you think rather than zone out. Good luck on keeping your cool.

What is the Point of Church [Part III]

I think, as I have said before, that there are many valid reasons why we attend church and yet there are many not so valid reasons why we end up going to church. First, I wrote about needing to belong and that we as people long to belong in some way or another. Then it was security and how we feel a sense of security when we attend service at a church. However, this time I want to talk about another reason why we desire to participate in a local church. I believe that we as believers and as human beings long for relationship.

Think about it. What do we do in life? Build relationships, right. Day after day, week after week we build. If it’s in the marriage or with the guys or even on the basketball court we are always being relational. In every aspect in life and in every contact we have with other humans it’s always in relation to something.

To be relational -

1. a connection, association, or involvement.
2. an emotional or other connection between people.

Jesus was the Master of relationships. I’m sure He was inviting as He walked here on earth, people always wanting Him to spend time in their home. I think it’s true that when Jesus was in your company you didn’t care about standing tall and looking good, you probably knew that He would see right through it. When He was around, you would just be real, vulnerable, and transparent because you knew He was. When I am with my wife that’s how I am because I know she doesn’t care. She knows me; we have a strong relationship that we have built on for over the last five years. When I am with a few of my closest friends we are loose in our language and comfortable in our environment. It’s not that we sit around and cuss at each other it’s just that we know that we won’t be offended when or if something inappropriate is spoken.

My point is this, we attend church for many reasons but in all importance we long to know one another. We desire to find those friends that we could communicate our thoughts with without feeling condemned or judged in any way. I believe Christianity is filled with those relationships. It’s just that’s it’s almost impossible to find it on a Sunday morning service thus the reason small groups and more intimate settings for bible study are becoming more desired as Christians maturing in their faith.

Why do we go to church; to belong, to feel secure, to build relationship maybe? Like I said, there are many reasons why, I just pray that we would think about it rather than not. The Church is an amazing body in which Christ has built and He is the most relational person I have ever met. Relationship; it's just another valid point of Church.

"A New Era"

There is a passion that is beginning to burn once again. Once a flame that burned so bright that not even the worst of struggles in life could have quenched it. Through weeks, months, and years with lack of oxygen the flame began to flicker out. While it burned with little fuel the flame never died, it fought through the tough times, it prevailed through the deep ocean of undertows that seemed to drown it out. Fuel once again has been found as if it was a desired delicacy. That flame is beginning to show new life and how pleased I am to see it. Jesus is burning within my heart at this moment. Burn my God, Burn. Bring back the passion that once burned bright and clear. All that which modernity tried to quench has been given new life today. Bring new life, new passion, and a new journey like nothing before.

Theemerge.com has ceased to exist and I praise God for it. I loved it and I met a lot of great people because of it. But it was too much for me; it was more than I though it would be. I am sorry for letting those of you down that found identity in it. I, just as much as you, desire to find people that feel the way I do. Thank you all for the support and the love.

What I have to say is this.

I am done!

Yeah, I am done ripping on the church and on those that are part of it. My season of bitterness has come to an end. My thoughts of anger have been purged from me. I no longer want to worry about who is right and who is wrong. I am ready to love, I am ready to see what God is really doing. At this point I have no agenda, no enemies, no one that I hate, and I am at peace. I am moving on and I am excelling past the brethren.

Enough is enough.

I want to let you all know this one thing, I love you. And I thank those of you that love back. Please pray that the flame would burn in the hearts of all that know Him and love Him.

I will continue to blog, so please check back.